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Braintree Meeting
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266 comments:
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Engineers its your time.Find out what your future can be. There will be an IBEW informational meeting Wednesday Aug.19 At 5:30pm at Emerald Hall 120 Baystate Rd. Braintree Ma. All are welcome. We want you with us! need more info please call Steve Smith 978-302-3690 or DJ Cronin 978-434-7995
Will there be a Central MA meeting soon ? Regretfuuly, I was unable to make the meeting on the 19th. Thanks much.
There will be other meetings scheduled check this site for updates.
Great meeting last night. I look forward to meeting you all at future meetings.
This question came up at one of the meetings with management. They stated that even after the vote to join the union has taken place and is approved by the engineers the company can still RIF the engineers prior to having a ratified contract. I thought things would be frozen during this time period
Is it true that every bargaining group has some form of contractor protection clause in the contract, including the latest group to be unionize (video engineers)?
In the meetings Mr. Gee said that we (engineers) would not be included in the core contract. How many other groups are not included in the core contract, and how many contracts does Verizon manage?
I heard that Verizon already has Union Engineers in the Potomac Vally Region. Is this true and do they get full union benefits?
test post
Thank you to those engineers who signed a union card for your bravery and to help put this motion into effect.
I've heard today that Verizon will have to let go 50 contractors or more and these contractors will have to be off payroll by August 30th, 2009. Why not us (Verizon engineers) this time you may ask? It is because of this unionization effort by the engineers (OSP, CO, IOF, Specialists). It just shows that with a collective voice we can stop these unfair treatments by Verizon. They have frozen our pension, water down our healthcare, and increase our daily loads, yet we don't complain and still do our job with great integrity and diligence. You would think that these take a ways would be enough for the company, but they take it to another level. Verizon decided to RIF their loyal and dedicated engineers who have worked 10-20-30 years to help build the network and the company for what it is today. I don’t think anyone of us is bother by the fact of being laid off. I think we can all agree it is unethical what the company is doing by RIFFing Verizon engineers while contractors are still on premise and offering us a job to come back as a contractor after six months. Fellow engineers, the writing is on the wall and here is your opportunity to do something about it. I too now have signed a union card and attended many IBEW information meetings and have not been RIFFed or disciplined because it is illegal for the company to fire you. It is your legal right to organize and gather information as long it is being done not during work hours. Please remember that this is an important decision not only for you, but for all of us involved in this process, so don’t vote base on “Fear” and be sure to have all your questions and concerns answered.
Vote “Yes”
There will be an informational meeting for all Engineers on Tuesday August 25th at 6:00pm at the Woburn Elks 295 Washington St.Woburn Ma. Get both sides of the story then decide.
John Rowley Sr., Business Manager of Local 2324, Steve Smith and I would like to set up a meeting for the Western MA engineers. Please let us know when would be a good time.
Every Verizon union worker in New England has some form of protection from the company's use of contractors including the newest groups VZB and the Video Engineers
When I first realized how fortunate we were to be voting in this precedent-setting election I considered this opportunity a slam-dunk for us - a point in our column, for once, after bearing witness to repeated assaults on our job security, workload and benefits. But, like the opportunity to roll-back the statewide income tax, nothing is a slam dunk, and quite often, folks mysteriously enjoy allowing punishment to be poured on them Soon, after THAT vote, those in this state who enjoyed paying taxes were immediately rewarded for their vote by Pike hikes and ncreases in sales, meals and accommodations taxes, among other slaps in the face. (”Thank you sir, and may I have another?”)
Don’t make the same mistake. If you think Verizon will somehow reward us for a “NO” vote, think again. It’s over. The barn door is open and there’s no closing it. A “YES” vote on 9/15 is our only opportunity, particularly now in the wake of this effort, to ensure our survival for the short-term, let alone the long-term. Wake-up, and take a stand for our future!
"No Way I'd Vote No" is right. Even if this attempt and vote failed, it doesnt mean another attempt either by another union in New England or a similar movement in New York won't replace it. Think Verizon and the $26 million dollar man's going to sit around and let that happen? A vote "YES" Sept 15 is required now more than ever (Unless you believe the contrary...after all, it's not like there's contractors sitting in the wings around ready to do our jobs is there?)
I attended the Saugus HR meetings for the company. They could not answer any question to anyones satisfaction. In their closing comments both Claudia (from HR) and Mr. Gee both said, and I quote " WE WISH WE WERE COVERED BY A CONTRACT"
To Mothers' worst nightmare...
I think a mothers worst nightmare would be losing benefits or even worse losing your job! If you do not believe that Verizon is looking to get rid of us all, (engineers: CO, IOF ,OSPE) ...look again! I do not care what type of deal you brokered with your boss, if you do not have a job you can't pay the mortgage. I to have children and I will make it work if we vote UNION alot easier than I could make it work if I lost my job. If you have any doubts about contractors check out the engineers section of this website...http://www.byers.com/....PLEASE BE INFORMED BEFORE YOU VOTE...WE HAVE ONE CHANCE TO GET THIS RIGHT!!!!
Attention all members of the Engineering Department,
We currently have two informational meetings set up to answer all questions about the upcoming IBEW election:
Tuesday, August 25th, 2009 @ 6:00 p.m. (we will be there at 5:30 p.m. if anyone wants to get there early)
Woburn Elks (downstairs)
295 Washington Street
Woburn, MA
Tuesday, September 1st, 2009 @ 6:00 p.m.
Belmont Lions Club
1 Common Street
Belmont, MA 02478
We will be scheduling more meetings in the near future. Stay tuned.
If anyone would like to set up a smaller meeting or a meeting other than what we are going to schedule, feel free to contact Steve Smith at 978-302-3690 or DJ Cronin at 978-434-7995.
VOTE NO!!!!
The only thing this vote is going to do is give the Union our dues. In this economy there is no way Verizon will sign a contract that guarantees our jobs. The Union says they can get this for us, but there is no guarantee, they don't know what Verizon will agree or disagree to. Wake up people!! We are too small a group to hurt the company, they will just replace us if we strike. The IBEW line and splice can not strike with us if that is what it comes to in order to get a contract. What makes you think Verizon will sign a contract with any wording that says no lay offs?? Also, it is business as usual until there is a contract signed, so there can be a RIF while we bargain. Business as usual!!!
Signed VOTE NO!!!!!
If the engineers vote YES IBEW union dues would be in excess of $250,000 a year to IBEW - remember this the next time they try to "educate" you on joining the union at the unbiased informational meetings.
I completely agree that the Union wants our dues. But where do our dues comes from? Our paychecks. And how do we get our paychecks? By doing our jobs. So is it in the Union's best interest to make sure we keep doing our jobs, so we can collect our paychecks, and pay our dues? Yes. Sounds like a win-win to me.
Secondly, when a 'Yes' vote occurs, I doubt that Verizon would institute a RIF while contract negotiations are ongoing. Management would bring itself under heavy scrutiny with this decision. Massachusetts is a very pro-union state, firing employees after they have decided to join a union brings legal, political, and publicity issues that Verizon would be pressured to defend.
Lastly, Verizon may not sign a contract with a no layoff clause, but the Union's first priority must be that no Verizon engineer can lose there job while there are contract engineers on the premises. This is why we are here now, maybe we have a chance to have some control over our future. Don't vote 'No', get RIFFED, and be left to wonder "what if."
Just for the record. Union dues are 1% of your base pay plus $12.00 a month. So what you pay would be somewhat less than the $250,000 per year mentioned above. And the informational meetings are voluntary unlike being assigned to attend one of the company's " unbiased" meetings.
In this economy Verizon is posting earnings of a billion dollars a quarter. Verizon certainly can afford to treat us fairly. The reason they don't ... because they don't have to. With a contract they will have to!
Do the Math!
What is the big deal about paying union dues. The math seems pretty simple regarding dues. We pay for all of our benifits now. They are sub par compared to the union benifits. We will probably see some saving in the deal. And not sure if anybody has noticed, without union representation, we have lost a great deal more than 1% (Of base pay) + $12a month. We have completely lost our pension and the company has graciously allowed us to purchase heath care benifits at the company rate after retirement.
Throughout my office,I often hear, if we vote yes to Union, we won't have flex time, and salaries could be capped. The facts: if people don't come together and we lose this battle. Most of us will have a lot of flex time being unemployed.In regards to salaries being capped, even if this was true, the key word is salary,If you get laid off, there will be no salary, and If you think you can find a job in this economy paying what you make now, think again, it rough times, you're lucky if you will be able to find a job making 1/2 of what you make. This is a no brainer, obtain security for your future now or spin the wheel with the company every few months until your number is up.
Anyone that uses the Union dues as a reason to vote "NO" is misinformed. Do they forget the MILLIONS that Verizon has taken in pension money...not to mention Healthcare! Just go to a Union meeting and get both sides of the story. There is plenty the Union can do for us!
"Don't worry, Verizon engineers. Your Managers will take care of you." It makes me laugh to hear about engineers walking around with some perceived sense of security radiated onto them by their managers. Or how Managers and directors are advocating for us. There's a reason they call them "Managers" - they manage the business - including head-rolls. (How many Managers vs engineers are involuntarily losing THEIR jobs in these RIFS?) Talk about overstaffed. Go ahead. Keep making them look good. Snuggle up even closer. It just makes it easier for them to cut your legs off from under you.
Can we have an informational meeting in the Marlborough - Framingham - Worcester area?
This "blog"is comical - its such a blatant attempt at marketing by the union employees to sell the YES vote. What's really sad is that if you ask a direct question of the marketing reps of IBEW they can not and will not assure any of us that we will retain our jobs. And the reality is we will be working for potentially years without a contract. Be careful what you wish for....
Dear Engineers,
A vote "Yes" will be no doubt be good for you and your family, but it would not be good for Verizon (Ivan and all third level and above). The executives’ leadership would take a great hit on our annual million dollars bonus, a decrease on our pensions, and reduce healthcare choices. We understand your frustrations, but we can't make any guarantee with your job security or release any contractors before laying engineers off at time. We know that the IBEW has a proven track record with unionizing the Verizon Business Rep. and Video Hub Engineers and negotiating them into the Core contact, but it won't happen again this time. We also know it has been a long time since any engineers have hear about Verizon union workers being laid off, but it is coming even though there is no set time table or dates. I encourage all engineers to vote "NO" and continue Business As Usual.
Sincerely,
Bill Belben
Vote No!!!
The Union will not be able to get us our pensions back, they will not be able to increase our benefits, they may be able to get the contractors fired first, but will not be able to guarantee there won't be a lay off. We don't have the numbers to make a difference.
And by the way, Bill Belben is on vacation, not blogging on this site...nice try , this is what Union types resort to , in order to get the votes that you want...lies!!
Vote NO!!!!!
Just curious, I wonder if all you vote no folks are on Verizon property on a day when over 2 inches of snow is forcast or are you the privileged few whose lives and time are worth more than the rest of us??
I have a couple of questions:
1. Right now we get a bonus every year. The exact amount varies, but it is equal to around 10% of our pay. How does the Union plan on dealing with that?
2. The pay scale for Engineers varies widely. Will the union guarantee that no one's salary will go down?
And please don't answer that we could lose our entire salary if we lose our job. I am well aware what I am risking not being in a union. What I want to know is what I am risking by joining one.
One of the things that the company has told us is that if we get a contract, it will be at a separate time as the Rest of the union employess. Therefore, we will have no bargaining power at all. There are engineers in every state doing exactly what we are, so they could easily move them here to do our jobs, or in the case of COE engineers, they wouldn't even have to move them. AT the same time, the other union members would continue to work because their contract will not be up. So, does the union have any plans to line up our contracts so that we would all be out at the same time? This would give us a lot more power and make it more difficult for people in other states to do our jobs, since a lot of them would be doing Union jobs in their area.
Stand together now, see a few less contractors around today ? That would have been us. Currently Executive focus is convincing the Board of Directors to invest and build the new 4G wireless LTE network ( I Wonder Why ? ). The FIOS network is proving too costly to roll out, it's not the labor, it's the millions we are paying the outside engineering firms fleecing the company, to do the design work. Wake up, do you have anything to do with the 4G network ? Do you design it ? A yes vote will start the ripple and help other engineering families across the footprint to reclaim their dignity and lost ground. Out of the ashes the Phoenix will rise.
Here is a simple bit of logic.
HOW can you promise pension, heath care and job security (when you DID NOT deliver for your associates hired after ‘03).
You had the strength of numbers we have 270 expendable employees.
WAKE UP PEOPLE THEY CAN’T GIVE US THE ASSOCIATE CONTRACT AND I DON’T WANT IT.
I like my HOURS, PAY INCREASES, VIP awards and TITLE. I didn’t go to school to become an engineering assistant.
There is no need to be nasty! There can be good reason to be said for both sides! The one thing that separates to two sides is current history. The company has decimated 1st and 2nd level benefits in recent years. The only reason is because they can! The company has not touched Union benefits because they need to bargain first. The issue of if we will get any of our benefits back is an unknown. However I know if we do not go Union we will not get the chance to ask, and Verzon will keep taking.
Answer to Anonymous: HOW CAN YOU PROMISE PENSION, HEALTHCARE, JOB SECURITY?
All union employees have a PENSION, FREE HEALTHCARE, AND NO LAYOFF CLAUSE!!!!!!In order for VERIZON to layoff any employee in the UNION they have to by contract pull back all contract workers and offer those jobs to the stated surplus! The Engineering group has 100's of contractors...If you had this clause you would be in far better shape!
1. Right now we get a bonus every year. The exact amount varies, but it is equal to around 10% of our pay. How does the Union plan on dealing with that?
ANSWER:
The video engineers were the last to join the Union and they no longer have the VIP. However if you subtract out free healthcare @ 6,708.00 for a family of 3 from a 10% VIP on 80k you are talking a difference of @ $1,300. Then you have the ability to work OT if possible.
2. The pay scale for Engineers varies widely. Will the union guarantee that no one's salary will go down?
ANSWER:
THE COMPANY LOVES TO SAY THAT BARGAINING STARTS WITH A BLANK SHEET. THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. BARGAINING STARTS FROM WHERE YOU ARE TODAY! NO IFs ANDs OR BUTS!!! IF YOU LOOK IN THE UPPER RIGHT HAND CORNER OF YOUR PAYCHECK YOU WILL SEE YOUR SALARY BROKEN INTO AN HOURLY WAGE THAT WILL BE YOUR STARTING SALARY/HOUR. THE WAGE SCALE WILL BE FROM THE LEAST PAID ENGINEER TO THE HIGHEST PAID ENGINEER. YOUR SALARY WILL NOT GO DOWN AND NEITHER DID VIDEO ENGINEERS OR ANYONE WE BROUGHT INTO THE UNION!
The union can only promise you two things. One if you don't do anything nothing will change; two if you form a union you will have a say in your future. It is true that all Verizon union workers in N.E have pensions, free health care, but not all are covered by the layoff clause. What all Verizon union workers do have is protection from the company's use of contractors. I guess Bill Belben is not the only one whose name is being borrowed
I'm amazed that "VOTE NO" voices are so short sighted that they are viewing this campaign as a threat and not the opportunity it really is. There's no way the political climate of Massachusetts will allow Verizon to close shop and send our work elsewhere. They would have done it already. It's not Ivan's good will keeping our jobs here. Throw in union protection for us, and you've an offer tough to beat. I'll take that certainty over the company's alleged "no guarantees".
Why should I vote union? Verizon gives me guarantees the union can't. They guarantee I'll lose my job sooner than later. Wake up CO engineers - - - - That axe is looking good over your necks !
I am naming myself anonymous 251 so that I have one voice on this blog. I apologize if someone thought I was nasty by stating that ‘I like my TITLE’. Most engineers have worked their butts off either in school to become a college hire or worked their butts off to get a promotion. I do not want to loose that for one unified title of Engineering Assistant.
@ Steve
The logic to join still is not apparent other than the propaganda you are repeating. It is a fact that the associates hired after 2003 do not have the same benefits i.e. job security and health that the grandfathered associates enjoy. How can you continuously promise for 270 people what you did not deliver for you own group. It simply is not logical to risk my job for a gigantic MABEY.
I get a kick out of the individual who feels their "going to school" somehow puts them above being a YES union vote. Guess what? Even if you attained an engineering degree WE'RE ONLY DOING TELECOM ENGINEERING !!! It ain't rocket science, people. You're no better than any others and PLEASE don't imply a union position is somehow beneath you.
Anonymous 251
I never said that it was ‘beneath me’ what I said is that I worked my butt off for the title of engineer and yes I did get an actual Engineering degree. I don’t want to loose what I worked hard to get for no guarantees.
What is beneath me is having a group of 270 people determine my future. I already have the corporate execs riffing 1st and 2nd levels at will now you are suggesting that I add an extra layer of bureaucracy that has an historic policy of last hired first fired dooming my future. I’m not in a good position either way, so forgive me I prefer the devil with perks.
How magnanimous of Seidenberg, Strigl, Ruesterholz, Diefenderfer, Nogay and the rest of their TV star cronies to show their support for "regular" employees by terminating contractors today. How blatently transparent is that? If that doesn't send a message about Verizon motive I don't know what would. The hot lights and cameras must be really getting to these guys. Bring back our fellow workers already RIF'd. Then we'll talk. Til then, talk to our bargaining agent.
You keep beating the same company drum. I must have missed the Verizon guarantees. Can you post them please? I may have misfiled them somewhere between "Diminished Health Care", "Pension Loss" and "Xmas AP" Grow up and smell the disparity !!
Anonymous 251
From my understanding most corporate managers do not have those types of guarantees why should we. It comes with the responsibility of being a manager. I know it feels like we get a bad deal but Verizon is still not a bad place to work. We have a lot of benefits that other companies do not offer. Ask your friends and neighbors because I have.
The company is not the same as it was 30, 20 even 10 years ago, you cannot expect to have monopoly era benefits in a capitalistic company. If you accept the benefits and perks of management then you also must accept the risk and uncertainty.
You have an Engineering degree and this is where you ended up? Even with one day of service you'll still be ahead of all the contractors you're fighting to protect. (and as for the CO engineers blaming OSP for deciding your future? It was your company who bonded us together - not OSP. You'll be the first ones to thank OSP and the union in a few years.)
All your points are valid regarding todays economy, workforce decisions and competition. You would be correct with respect to Verizon if we didnt already have a union presence to the degree we do. The worst position to be in is an entry level manager position in a union represented workforce. Managers (not 1st levels) and above have security. Bargained-for employees have security. If you have a chance to "join them" (since you havn't beaten them, why wouldn't you ? Put your pride away and consider your future - realistically.
Everyone keeps talking security but once again, please address the fact that anyone hired after 2003 doesn’t have job security in their contract. If those associates can be laid off in times of need why would I believe that the Union can provide a JSL for the managers. It was said in one of the sessions with HR that the Union sacrificed the JSL for the 2003+ associates in lieu of other contract points. I hate to beat a dead horse but if this is your only bargaining chip and you didn’t honor your main constituents why should I believe that you will for 270 people.
Verizon is in the business of taking they will not give a pension or JSL to 270 who threaten a strike. If Vz is trying to lay off 8000 people I am sure they can accommodate 270 more.
Don't put all us CO engineers in the same bucket, quite a few of us are voting yes. We know what we are getting with the company; BROKEN PROMISES in the form of reduced benefits, stolen pension, one option for health care, and an intimidating work environment. I keep hearing from the company about all the autonomy we have has engineers but when I look around the autonomy is only for the "chosen ones". The word autonomy does not come to mind when the entire group gets emails about scheduled tours and you must work a minimum of 8 hours and here are some example shifts. It all kind of makes me think of being a service rep - with a title. How can you folks that get to work at home 1-5 days a week come in here and look everyone else in the face? It is obviously an effective tool for our mangers to divide us and give what is ultimately an additional raise to there rump swabs. I find it appalling that some people get to work at home and raise their kids or as previously mentioned stay home on snowy days while others have to take unpaid time in the case of child care or vacation time for snowy or I have things to do days. I would call it unethical at the least. As far as job security - WE DON'T HAVE ANY NOW. I am confident that the union would not present us with a contract to vote on which at the very minimum would stipulate that all contractors must go before employees and if they don’t we can vote it down. The vote on 9/15 is only the first vote. If we get anything beyond that it is a bonus but at least there is a possibility of it happening, status quo = no chance of it happening. I do have one question for Steve and that is – is it true that the rest of the union would cross our picket lines if we went on strike on a different contractual time line? That is what the company is telling us and it seems wrong but I would like to here a response to that question.
Anonymous 251
Here is something to chew on. If the Union is voted through do you honestly expect all the people who voted NO to honor a work stoppage? The more people that cross the line the less bargaining power you have this includes the ASSOCIATES that CANNOT strike due to contractual obligations.
It's all very simple to me.
1) I want to keep the title of engineer, which I have earned and worked hard for. It will be humiliating to be called an engineering assistant. UGH.
2)I want to the keep the autonomy with which I do my job. Drawing lines in the sand as to what I can and can not do is unacceptable.
3) I want my raises and bonuses to reflect my performance which I am responsible for, not the number of years I have with the company.
4) I want to take my vacation time when I want to take my vacation time.
5) I want those who currently work at home a few days a week to keep that priviledge.
6) I want to keep my current very good salary and not have it be frozen so that everyone will ultimately be "equal". YUCK.
Verizon is still one of the best companies to work for. The benefits are still very good. The union has NOTHING to offer and the risks are too big. I want to keep what I have. Vote "NO".
It's real simple to me too - you are a rump swab working those five hour days when you feel like coming in. I hope you feel good about yourself bundled up on your sofa on a snow day while your co-workers are risking their lives driving to work. It's real simple watch out for your own selfish interests and be screw my coworkers as long as I get perks. 251 if we are union and you cross - good luck to you
Anonymous 251
First, I hope the last line was not a threat to my person. Second, from my stand point you are doing the same thing. Let’s become a union regardless of how everyone feels about it. Third, Verizon gives everyone personal days which can be allocated anyway you choose that is why they are called PERSONAL.
Anonymous – 6:12am You summed up everything I have been trying to say… Thanks
251 - I can accept whatever the majority decision of my co-workers is. If it is yes or no, I am okay with that. I have no power to make everyone union based on my or your feelings about it. I know we live in a democracy/republic but I don't think the bar for any vote has been set at 100%. Are you actually saying that some people should take personal days for snow or whatever days while others get to "work at home" on the company dime? Once again it is a way of by passing the pitence raises by reducing the expenses of the favorites. That is beyond me. Either everyone should have the perk or no one should, I highly doubt that the WAH people are that much more critical to the business than the others. BTW - it's kind of hard to threaten an anonymous poster
Your are welcome Anonymous 251. Keep up the good work!
Look for the union label.
What people need to do is look more deeply into the issues that got us to this point. We can sit here all day long and argue back and forth about what the union can and cannot provide the Verizon engineers. The bottom line is that we work in a dying business. The legacy telephone network is shrinking, and now it appears that FiOS may be obsolete before its time.
The Unions could not save auto workers when the factories moved to Mexico, and the business dried up. Unions couldn't save the steel workers in Pittsburgh back in the 80's when the business climate changed and far cheaper steel from Japan, and now China took over the market. Unions couldn't save the railroads once people found air travel faster and more convenient. So, the IBEW cannot save us from the technological march to high-bandwidth wireless.
My point is, we are all sitting here wondering if the union will get us a pension, cheaper health coverage, or a no layoff clause when they can't even provide those protections to the members they have right now. Have we forgotten that many of the union associates hired after the 2003 contract are going to be laid off. Apparently, those union members were left to swing in the wind while the senior people protected themselves.
I am not anti-union or anti-labor, to the contrary I feel that labor unions have played an important role in shaping the labor protections we enjoy today under the law. Some unions have modernized to adapt to the changing labor landscape, but the IBEW seems to be a union that clings to the tired old tactics that worked 50 years ago, but do not work today. The best thing we can do for ourselves right now is to stay relevant, keep learning new skills that are in demand in the marketplace, and yes take those skills somewhere else if necessary. It's a very tough economy right now, and no one wants to loose their job, so it is understandable that people would look to the union to help, but they cannot change the underlying problems that effect our business. Most of the people in this company believe that they are entitled to a job of life, and it would be great if such a place existed someplace other than in fantasy land.
Nice post and some relevent points but why compare Verizon and the telecommunications industry in general to bankrupt industries? You might as well have thrown in buggy wip makers. The people hired after 2003 may be losing their jobs but at least they know contractors won't be taking them! We don't know that if we stay with staus quo - and if you believe what the company is saying I have some old parity plus emails for you to read. Last time I checked a cell site doesn't work very well unless it is connected to a cemntral office.
Great reality check SIGH. Verizon does not owe anyone a job. It is up to us as employees to work hard, do our best and if the company falls on tough times, which it is now, we either accept the realities of that and stay or find another job and move on. Companies are not responsible for individuals, individuals are responsible for themselves.
could you please explain to me what part of over 1 BILLION DOLLARS a year(maybe a 1/4) is related hard times. Please explain that without the company line bull. How come the leaders of this company don't lead by example and work with the benefits that we have? WHY? If you think that work hard stong company blah blah blah will save your job then you are naive. If any of us get in the way of perks and bonuses for the elite of this company then we are gone. If the company didn't think they were not going to come out on the short end of this deal then they wouldn't be going all out to try and stop it. You may be right - they just care about our working relationship.
I don't expect the company to "save" my job. I am not owed that.
are you working from home today?? ... I thought so.
If this last comment is referring to me, Anonymous 6:12, I do not work from home. Never have and never will. I think we would do better to keep the discussion rational and one of principle and not one of personal attacks. It deviates from the important issues at hand.
I believe the union was very useful and instrumental in the workforce. But that was then when people were getting exploited, working or very little money in hazardous conditions.
I do not consider myself being exploited, working for little money or in hazardous conditions . . . if I did I know where the door is.
This is a very volatile time in history. The housing market has crashed, the market has tanked and people have lost money in their retirement accounts, loosing jobs, house etc. . .
The world is changing. I need to change with it, and so does Verizon. I am the only person accountable for me and my actions. I do not expect that somebody will have MY best interest at heart and act accordingly.
Let’s face it there are no guarantees in life other than taxes and death.
With all that being said – What can the union give/guarantee me? Will they guarantee me my job, a secure future, benefits, VIP etc. . . Are they going to guarantee all that? If they are please put it in writing!
wow, I do not want to be any part of a group of people that lie and make threats to people. The letter I received at home last night is such a lie. I was at that meeting and that is not what Claudia and Eddy said...nothing like changing some words around to make it look good.
I will not be going on strike ever, so should I watch my back too??
VOTE NO!!!
Anonymous 251
@ Anonymous 11:22 and 6:12 -- AMEN!!!!! To your statements
This is a forum to express our ideas therefore no need for personal attacks.
Steve, the real Steve, my question on the VIP. I have no children. I pay $550 a year on my insurance. On a bad year, my additinal medical expenses are about $1000(that's on a bad year). That is A LOT less than my bonus. Why wouldn't the Union simply add in the 10% and make that our starting salary? Especially since there is no guarantee that we'll even get medical paid in full (with little or no copay)
Gee, I wonder why someone wouldn't want to be a member of a Union. Maybe because they are already being threatened for future actions they may take, when we aren't even union yet. Maybe not the best way to sell this to people on the fence.
what exactly was a threat on this board? Good luck if you cross a picket line? I guess that could be a threat. I wouldn't take it as one. As someone who has been here for longer than I care to remember the folks who crossed the line back in 89 were not beaten but they were ostracized for many years and in some cases to this day. Just some perspective on that comment.
I find it curious that the company sent out a two page question and answer fact (so called) sheet. I thought the issue was to form a union or not. We have gone past the election and negotiations (which are supposed to be in good faith) and went right to strikes and pickets lines.I wonder why that would be????
Scare tactics. Just bringing up the word "strike" is a scare tactic. Not to mention an admission of bad faith negotiations before they even begin. Oh by the way, current union members or "associates" (I hate that term) would NEVER cross ANY picket line.
I see the no votes attacked the person above about threats but I think the bigger threat is telling your co-workers to flip off by crossing a picket line in the event of a strike. By the way no one answered any of the questions posed.
Are you actually saying that some people should take personal days for snow or whatever days while others get to "work at home" on the company dime? Answer please
Please explain to me what part of over 1 BILLION DOLLARS a year(maybe a 1/4) is related to hard times? Answer please.
With all that being said – What can the union give/guarantee me? Will they guarantee me my job, a secure future, benefits, VIP etc. . . Are they going to guarantee all that? Let me see, we have lost all that already because we are not in a union. Can the company guarantee that the 4th and 5th week vacation will not be taken away? can they guarantee that the lump sum option will not be removed and I am forced into an annuity? Will the incentives we currently get to retire not be taken away? Will we be forced into the government health plan in the event one passes? One of the versions of that bill calls for an $800 fine to employers of over 25 for not providing health care. Let me see 800 vs 3000. I can see the email now; After much soul searching Verizon has decided to stop offering health benefits but you can join the government plan. It really seems like a no brainer but obviously no minds will be changed here either way. I wish the vote could take place tomorrow so we all can move on.
Anonymous 251
If you have the flexibility to work from home, great you should utilize it when needed especially in bad weather (I do not have that option). If Verizon sees benefits perhaps that perk will be extended to more employees so I do not have a problem with anyone WAH. If the weather is bad and you choose to stay home then either use a personal day or unpaid day it’s your choice. This sounds more like playground jealously than a reason to form a union, hey if its not your turn to play with the ball find another game.
I am sure we all are familiar with budgets even if it is our household finances. If you had $1000 in the bank would you call forth your family and friends and ask if they want some or would you find a use for it within your household. It takes money to run a company, no where in Ivan’s quarterly results does he state that we have 1 billion in the bank doing nothing. Check our debt reduction, capital and expense budgets for further explanations.
As for the associates crossing the picket lines, it is in your contract you MUST cross the line you cannot sympathy strike for other organizations. Therefore how can you guarantee all of these promises on the strength of 270 expendable employees?
Very well stated Anonymous 251. You make the case clear and precise. Logic has to rule here and you are doing exactly that. Verizon is not "evil", it is just in the business of doing business and making money. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and we all benefit as employees from that. We have jobs because of that drive.
Boy 251 you sure are quick to tell people to leave if you don't like it. I hope you do the same if the union gets voted in because that is a two edged sword. I don't consider giving people extra vacation days a petty jealousy and I bet you don't work at home - thou doth protest too much. Your probably an HR plant anyway becauseyou sure buy the company line. I guess you forget all the broken promises and give backs to a very profitable company. See you on 9/15
Anonymous 251
I am not a plant I am someone who this union will not benefit. I will not have seniority and my job doesn’t require a MA presence like some other jobs. It doesn’t take rocket science to know that if the Union doesn’t get job security as promised I will be one of the first casualties.
Do you think that if the union gets voted in that they would come back to us and say "we have concluded bargaining and we got no concessions and you actually lost pay and more benefits". As someone said above the very least that they would come back with is all those contractors have to go before any permanent employees. If they didn't come back with at least that I for one would not vote to ratify that contract and would assume the vast majority of us would vote likewise. If they could not reach an agreement it would go the NLRB and I would rather take my chances with the union stacked NLRB than with a company that is run by a bunch of compulsive liars. By the way believe it or not I am a short timer also and would rather be forced to a different reporting location than riffd. In my opinion that is the worst that would happen as there is no way that 270 of us could pick up the work of the hundreds of contractors out there. Peace!
I read this blog after work hours on my home PC. The only thing more gratifying other than the yes vote would be to witness security escort this 251 employee off premise for the blatant wasting of company time during work hours, this person is either a selfish neophyte or a plant, responds too quickly to blogs. YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO ? GET BACK TO WORK,YOUR A MANAGEMENT DISGRACE NOT IN TOUCH WITH THE ISSUES.
Eddy Gee in the meeting that I attended addressed the contractor issue and it is going to be dealt with. I agree that there was a problem with keeping contractors and laying off core employees. I am sure it was "savings" motivated and there is actually nothing wrong with that. I personally have not had to deal with first hand and I am now being brought into the "fight". Verizon knows that the contractor issue is a "sore" spot and this is why it, the company, has put in new people, like Eddy Gee, to "fix" the contractor problem. I still prefer to know that Verizon will do right by us and the company overall. The union only wants membership and dues. They are self-serving and only want power. I also want to keep what I have and not chance the risks of having a union. There is far too much to lose and nothing to gain.
Anonymous 251
Wow that was very personal…let’s keep this about the issues swift boating is not necessary. Since you know my schedule what makes you think I was not at home today. You know what they say about those who assume too much.
While I was composing my last comment a new comment came in and as usual, those who are either in the union or work for the union must always attack personally. I guess when you can't argue the issues rationally there is nothing better then "ad hominem" to resort to. Too bad. I find it interesting that those who accuse others of being "plants" are probably "plants" themselves. Takes one to know one! Let's elevate the discussion please.
With all due respect to Eddy he is just a director and ultimately will do as he is told - just like we do. Seriously what exactly do we have to lose? Please don't re-list 1-5 of the previous poster because I am not buying any of that. I really am just beginning to believe that the company could do whatever they want to you guys and all would say is how lucky we are and thanks – It’s like masochism
The company is playing on, in their words, the "analytical nature of engineers" by publishing convaluted propaganda that can be mindf--d to death. It's really very simple: Anything - read - ANYTHING we get in a contract is better than we have now.
"You guys"? I thought you were one of "us"? "Us" being those trying to keep the good jobs and benefits we now have and to avoid the union. It's obvious to me now.
I think you guys is referring to the no voters. What benefits are those again? I think masochism about sums it up. From on of you who can actually see the company for what it is.
Anonymous 251
I am resigning my position on the Verizon defense team I leave you with my original opinion. I do not believe that the Union can deliver what they are promising and it is not a good move for the former Network Engineering department.
Hopefully I caused a few good conversations around the water cooler or printer and perhaps made a few people think about this from a different perspective. Thank you to all those who responded to me positively and negatively. Please vote with thought whatever your decision maybe
To anonymous 6:21,
Most of us here had to deal with the contractor/RIF issue firsthand and it was awful. Nearly every contractor in our office is a former Bell employee collecting a pension, some also collecting social security. Some are excellent engineers, some are below average. The company told us that they RIF'd the unsatisfactory VZ engineers, what about the unsatisfactory contractors--still working. But there's nothing wrong with that because it saved the company money, right? The company does have a "fix" for the contractor problem, I think the "fix" is to get more of them. We have engineers who were RIF'd who are back as contract engineers. So they were basically told that they were not good enough as a Verizon engineer, but are perfectly acceptable as a contractor. These are facts, not opinion stated as fact. You "still prefer to know that Verizon will do right by us and the company overall." Should be stated as you "still prefer to think, disregarding recent events, that Verizon will do right by us." We had to sit around waiting to see if we would be tapped on the shoulder and told to leave, but could come back as a contractor for half pay and no benefits. "Nothing wrong with that?" To me that is the definition of wrong. "Too much to lose?" "Nothing to gain?" You'll have to forgive us if we are not as trusting of upper management as you, and many of us do not blindly trust the union either, we just distrust them less. Yes you were lucky that you did not have to deal with this firsthand, but what about the next time?
If there is a next time I will just deal with it. I would be willing to be let go and come back as a contractor. It's another option to stay employed. Or, leave myself and find employment elsewhere. There are no perfect fixes and I have no trust in the union at all. I have already volunteered for a RIF in the past and was not chosen. The biggest issue I have with signing up for the union is the fact that we would lose our management positions and titles. I haven't worked for 30 years in engineering to just be given the title of "engineering assistant." I take too much pride in my work to lose all that I have gained. I work for more than a paycheck.
On another note, I am glad to see that discussion on this blog has become rational and not personal.
I have been reading this with a lot of interest. Both sides have good points. I wasn't going to comment, but I just have to respond to the person that said: "Boy 251 you sure are quick to tell people to leave if you don't like it. I hope you do the same if the union gets voted in because that is a two edged sword."
That is not really true. Every person that took this job, took it as a Management position, knowing that it held none of the "security" of a Union position. They weighed their options and made a personal choice to take the job. They didn't ask for 268 other people to vote on whether they left the Union or not. Being forced to be in a Union job (which is what will happen to everyone who votes no if the Union wins), is not the same as choosing a Management position.
To those concerned about losing the title engineer; no one has told me that if we become union our job function would be renamed and if it was wouldn't that be subject to negotiations? We've been told by both sides that everything is subject to negotiations. I think more in terms of my talent and industry in finishing a job that I am assigned than the title that I work under. I know this though be it CEO or a line worker for GM when they get laid off they share a new title... unemployed
I still wish to deal with Verizon than a union. If we have to "fight" to keep our our integrity and pride that will take a very long time with negotiations between the company and the union and they can't guarantee such values. They, the union, aren't in that business. These are not their value and the union doesn't understand that language. We will loose the basic values we have...to work hard, strive for the best and earn a good paycheck, no matter what. Why sell thsse values to be possibly, guaranteed a paycheck? Too much of selling ourselves out. Not worth it. We are stronger than that!
Anonymous 6:12
Speak for yourself! I would take a guaranteed paycheck over a stupid job title to provide and support my family any day. Did you forget that a few years ago the company changed all our job titles as "Specialists" and then change it back? The company can change our job titles or take our VIP award. Does the company have anything in writing that these are guaranteed? NO!!! They have been taking and taking and they are not going to stop. You are making statements and speaking out of your ass because you have no facts to support anything you declare.
Voting "Yes" because of this idiot. Thanks for changing your mind.
Anon 6:12...I can't tell if you are young, naive, HR, or all of the above. Where in your world of 1+1=2 is there a relationship of hard work, striving for the best, good paychecks, and other Kumbaya amber waves of grain? Certainly not at Verizon. The caliber of what our corporation values as executive leadership proves that. If your fairy tale were true, the best would rise to the top (Verizon managers? Please), we'd be able to govern our own destiny (winning stock price after the FiOS Hail Mary pass - our design), and our health care plan would actually be effective (Anthem what ?) Yeah, together we can. I've heard that before. C'mon, 6:12 wake up. In this economy you ought to be ashamed to be given the chance for a YES ote and deny it. Someday, I'd like to be there when you explain to your children how your hard work was rewarded by your company and together you didn't.
"Changing my mind" hits it on the head. I was on the fence since Belben took time out from slashing heads to start his vague babbling and rambling dissertations months ago. The Union doesn't even have to say anything. All anyone needs is more company advocates to swing more toss-ups to a YES. VOTE YES !!!!!
Hey Anonymous 6:12: You volunteered for a RIF and were passed up? Shows you the flaws in the system right there. I'd rather trust the union culture than that one. Can't wait for the ballot for a huge 'yes'.
A few thoughts.....
Like it or not, we're all in this together. Mike Daigle sent us a copy of the request for the IBEW to organize the OSP Engineers and the company added the CO and Specialists in a hope to water down the pro-union vote. Now, we are all going to live with the outcome of this vote whether it's yes or no. I personally believe that if this attempt to organize fails, many of us will be without a job at the end of this year. Managers (I won't give names out of respect for them and their futures at Verizon) have stated that although nothing has officially been said they expect significant layoffs if this fails. I hope they're wrong.
If the union is voted in, we need to do everything we can to make sure that all of us are represented. We aren't going through this process so we decide who stays and goes instead of the Company. There's 260 of us today and there should be 260 of us tomorrow. As far as I'm concerned there is no negotiating on that issue whether you're OSP, CO, full time or part time. The Company says everything is up for negotiation once we join the Union, but they are wrong. There will be no negotiation on jobs.
While some of us believe they won't be let go in the next wave of RIFs, it's possible that some of our friends and family may find themselves without a job. I ask you to think of those people when you cast your vote. Say yes to the Union.
Unfortunately this blog has resorted to personal attacks once again rather than good, rational arguments or points of view. I guess when all you have is emotion in your arsenal it's hard to see things clearly.
Vote NO. Trust Verizon, not the union.
6:12 you have yet to make a rational argument. By your response you are the one making the attacks and calling peoples rational arguments emotional. It seems to me you are the emotional one living in la la land. That other person you attacked said - the vote no people - are quick to say leave if you don't like it and you said #Every person that took this job, took it as a Management position, knowing that it held none of the "security" of a Union position". What a load of crap!! Anyone who took this job over 10 years ago should have been offered to return to the union after being throughly raped by this company you think we should trust. Here is a personal attack for you. Get your head out of your ass before you sit down and break your neck.
Anonymous 251
@ 6:12 the nail that sticks up gets hammered the most, it is obvious we have an unpopular opinion in this forum.
I do not believe anyone should be swayed by the personal opinions presented on this blogsite.
Do independent research and make the best choice for you and your family. Find out if companies that have strong unions succeed if so how if not what were the factors. In the end if the company doesn’t survive what is the point of job security i.e. auto industry and airlines (bankrupted industries) vs. Wal-Mart (one of the most profitable companies in the US). I am no Warren Buffett but I know which one of those I would prefer to own stock in and which one I would still have a job with.
My choice for the reasons I previously mentioned is a NO vote.
How about the phone company? One of the strongest unions around. Everyone here knows that.
Neither side can make any guarantees. So how do we decide? I have to look at what has happened over the years. First level mgmt has gone from being a valued member of the team to "heads" that are expendable in order to balance the budget. We made an unwritten agreement to work hard, be professional and in turn be treated just a little better than non-mgt. How times have changed. We have lost our pensions, our overtime, been replaced by contractors and given inferior health plans that we have to pay for.
The pension was the worst for me. I would have signed an IBEW card the day it was frozen. I never expected 6+6, severence, bonuses etc. but the pension was a promise. We agreed to work for lower pay and benefits because we had a pension. Now it has been "frozen". Verizon would have stolen the whole thing I think if they weren't forbidden by law.
So I am more that willing to give the union a chance. No guarantees - but who has done better for employees in the past?
Once again 251, 6:12 and supporter why do you compare Verizon to bankrupt industries??????? This company makes billions of dollars every year and will always be around in some form as long as there is TV, internet, business data transport needs and phone service either cell or land line.
Anonymous 251
Verizon is still profitable the wireline industry is declining as such a pace our bread and butter has become our liability (see Northern States, Hawaii and Mid States sales). In most homes there are multiple cell phones , children are getting cell phones at an earlier age and newly independent young adults are no longer signing up for land lines, in a few generations the home phone will be obsolete. It is no guarantee that we will gain enough market share to survive or dominate the TV, internet and wireless markets.
The phone company is not the juggernaut that it used to be and while the corporate execs try to respond to market pressures it has an albatross around its neck in the form union bargained for obligations.
I do not want to loose my job or my benefits but I can see the writing on the wall, Change, Reduce expenses or Fail. I may not like it but I understand and as a manager I can accept the consequences.
Can anyone provide me with the name of a company who has guaranteed job security to their employees that is successful and profitable?
Verizon associates
Anon 6:12, Please keep in mind as you make your posts, that you are the only person on this blog who wants to be RIF'D. You are in a very exclusive minority, here's hoping you are in the minority 9/15.
Anon 251, the union killed the American auto industry? The idiotic decisions by management also played a part. I don't think any of us are looking to bring Verizon and the telecom industry to its knees. We are looking for a fair and equitable negotiated contract. One the WE get to ratify. One that lays off every contractor before any Verizon Engineer. If you do not believe this can be attained that's one thing, but give us an alternative. Sitting at our desks, doing our jobs to the best of our ability, and secretly hoping that the person in the next cubicle gets RIF'D is not an alternative, it's simply admitting defeat.
Thumbs up 251! You continue to do a great job in this debate.
The bottom line, Verizon doesn't owe me a job. No company does. I won't sell my soul to this union that only wants to make money and bring the company to it's knees in the disguise of "caring" for the employees.
Verizon employees work to make the company successful. There is no "them" and "us". As employees, we are Verizon.
The union wants to make trouble and make money and to put a divide between employees and the "company". Unions do not create, generate, produce or manufacture anything. They are dividers. They thrive off of generating divides. They make their money making trouble.
In their time when people, many decades ago, were taken advantage of, they had their purpose. They have outlived that purpose and now only bring companies down. They became addicted to the power.
At their very roots this union is very destructive and if left to freely wheel and deal their agenda would eventually cause Verizon to close their doors. Who is going to pay who at that point? Not the union, that's for sure.
Vote NO on September 15th. Keep your pride.
6:21...I do not understand how we loose our integrity and work ethic if we join the Union! We have lost our pensions, healthcare, vacation, Verizon has threatened not to pay us OT while we were working during the strikes and they continually RIF engineers and then replace them less than 2 weeks later with contractors (Watertown) and my integrity and work ethic are still intact. Verizon's commitment from their employees increases every day while their commitment to their employees decrease at an alarming rate.
IF WE DO GO UNION I WILL BE A MODEL EMPLOYEE AS I AM TODAY!
6:12 you really are the chicken little of verizon. the sky is falling verizon doesn't make money, they have to reduce forces to be a viable company. here are some facts: Verizon Communications has reported a 15.2% increase in net income to $1.2 billion for the fourth quarter, compared to $1 billion in the year-ago quarter, on revenue up 3.4% at $24.6
billion. Operating profit grew 11.9% to $3.8 billion, compared to $3.4 billion in the year-ago quarter. This is from 2008(worst year since the great depression according to many economists) here is a link; http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2149839/
The only people doing any dividing here are the company elites (which you/us are not) and the non-represented workers. I believe a previous poster said it best you sir are a rump swab. Vote union to ensure that we get treated appropriately for the part we play in ensuring the future successes of this company. A no vote = more give backs and more layoffs
Anon 6:12 & 251: If the union is as damaging to the company and it's success as you portray, why isn't Labor Relations forcing more progress at the table for you every 3 years ?
You have to be kidding me. We've been in the company crosshairs every quarter for two years now and Belben, Daigle and Co. are asking individuals to "consider all factors and get all the facts before making a decision"? For what? To decide between "Definately YES" or "Absolutely YES" ? Every day these jokers breathe is another reason to kneel down and thank the IBEW for this opportunity.
251 & 6:12 ? Some people just don't know when to come in out of the rain.
HAHAHAHAAHAHA Hey 6:12: What pride is that exactly that we're supposed to keep by voting "No"? We lost that to several HR rapes long ago. Do me a favor - Go join the rest of your co-workers in HR. If you need me call my steward. - And 251 - thought you resigned your advocate position days ago? Verizon start offering you OT?
Anonymous 251
I resigned for a day and there was barely a peep. I came back because my public needed me. lol :-)
Guess what 6:12? People in unions built your house, teach your children, and protect your streets. Yes there are extremists, but most are ordinary working people. The Union cannot "free wheel." Every union contract is also signed by the Company. I think that negotiators on both sides are smart people, and know that causing Verizon to "close their doors" is not in either party's best interest.
Anonymous 251
To quote a man who knows how I feel, "Can't we all just get along?" Why must you continually misquote and abuse me on this blog.
MA/RI aren’t the biggest revenue producers in the company and its obvious that the execs don’t want it. If the union unfortunately succeeds what is to stop them from selling MA/RI and cutting their losses, no headaches or payouts. Hey but a job is a paycheck I guess we can’t be picky.
To Anonymous of August 28, 9:38, my discussion about unions does not refer to people in unions, like construction workers, teachers, policemen and firemen. It would be unfair of me to ever point the finger at those who are forced to be in unions, many of which probably would choose not to be if given the chance. Indeed these are very good people.
My discussion is centered around the unions themselves and their politics and power grabbing. I don't believe I need a second party, the union, to be a spokeman for me. I prefer to deal directly with Verizon. I trust myself more than the union, which is only self-serving.
Once again 251, great job.
I guess you and the union have something in common after all - you are both self serving.
As far as the company selling NE, what state would allow Verizon to sell anything after the Fairpoint deal - what a joke.
After a successful "Yes" vote in a couple weeks, the terms of our first contract will be hammered out by representatives of THIS new bargaining unit - not the SST's, Teamsters, teachers or autoworkers. We will be represented by that bargaining committee. It is then up to us. We won't be putting ourselves in the hands of "the union" as some bloggers out here seems to imply - we'll simply be taking care of ourselves, as we should.
All Aboard the Fantasyland Express
I have been off this blog for a bit, and I can see that there is still one very important question that the pro-union "writers" have yet to address.
What has the union done for it's own members that had the misfortune to be hired after some date in 2003?
I think we all know the answer to that question. How can we expect any better? Basically, the people with high seniority took care of themselves, and left the younger people hired after the old contract out to dry.
No one has made a compelling argument as to exactly how the Union will "protect or jobs". Instead we are given vague promises implying that it can't be any worse than it is now.
A writer several posts ago made an excellent point. When we decided to accept our present positions we were accepting a non-union position. Now people are in a panic and they want union representation in the desperate hope that they can save their job, give them security, and bring back their pension.
Good luck
No Union = Whole engineering firm riffed for contractors as soon as the company can do it. Last time I checked, all engineering offices have many contractors who filled in for previously riffed engineers!
Union = A chance to keep collecting a paycheck everyweek after all of our hardwork and support our families AND have a voice in how we are treated. If people feel so strongly about perks they currently have, come to a meeting and speak up about keeping them come time to negotiate the contract!
From what I have heard, high level managers like Ivan have a contract and have lawyers and such who negotiate for them. They went to college too and all have degrees as well!
Not much has been entered on this blog in quite a few days. It is my opinion that the "yes" voters for the union appear on this blog only on the defensive, not to make good points. The silence speaks.
Vote NO in two weeks on September 15th.
The silence speaking will be our empty offices.
6:12 you must only be reading your own posts some great points have been made for the yes side and you have yet to make one for the no side. The only thing you have illustrated is that you could care less what happens to any of your co-workers as long as you get to keep your job and whatever morsels your boss throws at you.
The fact of the matter is that you will votr no matter what and you are not open to a yes vote under any circumstances. That's why this blog is kind of pointless. Everyone knows how they are going to vote so why keep up this banter. You either like getting benefits taken away from you, getting raises that don't cover the cost of living rises in fuel and taxes or you want the chance to band together as one voice for the benfit of all of us. if we don't vote yes all we have to look forward to are less benefits and getting picked off 10% at time. Exactly what goodwill does the company have with us after the last 10 years of give backs? if you actually some other posts besides your own you would have read that the company over 1 BILLION doolars in the 4th 1/4 of 08. It certainly makes me want to give back more - after all they are on the verge of filling for chapter 11. I am not even looking at this anymore as you and 251 make me ill.
251 and 612 say the union is only thinking of itself by taking dues from us. this may be true, but the only way for the union to do better is to negotiate a good contract for it's members. the more we make the more they make. if we get laid off, the union won't be collecting any dues. the company makes more profits by cutting benefits and laying off workers and hiring them back as contractors. who do you think will work harder for our futures?
mike daigle's last "fact sheet" says we could end up with less pay and benefits if we join the union. wouldn't the company want to pay us less and cut that payroll from the expense budget? these are tough times! if that statement were true, we wouldn't be meeting the executive branch of the phone company for the first time.
we may not gain anything, but at least we won't keep losing.
vote yes. it's your future.
A chicken in every pot.
I do agree with the previous "contributor" on one of his points. There is little constructive value to this blog. Whenever reasonable questions are asked, or issues brought to light, they are at best answered with party line platitudes, and at worst they are either ignored or ridiculed.
While I do not trust the company, I also do not trust the union. Maybe we should ask some of the splice technicians that were hired after the middle of 2003 just how wonderful the union is, and how their jobs were all protected.
a writer mentioned we knew we were accepting a non-union job when we came into engineering.
this is what i knew when i took the job. i knew i would be paid time and a half for overtime. i knew i would receive a "better" pension than the craft. i knew my medical contribution would be 20 times less than it is today. i knew if i worked hard i would be able to keep my job and maybe get promoted.
i may not know what the union will bring me if we vote yes, but i sure know what the company is offering these days.
Anonymous 251
Wow, I am still causing controversy and I haven’t been on in a few days. Sorry for making 5:22 ill I hope he recovers quickly.
While you may think you are saving yourself and your compatriot’s jobs by voting yes what good is a union when you have no one to work for. You need to wake up and see the economy and the state of the company for what it is. Stop quoting profit figures because that is an incomplete picture. The industry as a whole is evolving and if we don’t change with it we will die out. We cannot change by forcing additional fixed costs onto a struggling company.
This is like the Pony Express wanting a union to protect their jobs from layoffs because the telegraph company was taking all of their business.
"While I do not trust the company, I also do not trust the union. Maybe we should ask some of the splice technicians that were hired after the middle of 2003 just how wonderful the union is, and how their jobs were all protected."
Hey Sigh..., I don't know about you, but I talk with those splice technicians everyday and do you know what they tell me? "I'm glad I'm an enigineers now because you guys goes through a RIF every quarters. At least all contractors who are doing my job have to goes first before I get layoff. As of today, the company has not official delcare surplus numbers and time table" I highly doubted the company will dare to touch these guys because they are the most productive work force the company has, so where do you think they are going to get the head count from? Engineers.
On a side note, I'm sorry to give you folks the bad news, but there is not such thing as "status quo" once this election is over and the company wins. Do you think the company is going to allow this (unionization effort) to ever happen again? NO WAY!!! There will be dramatic changes and they are going to expedite the contracting efforts, so get you resume ready. Below are some recommended companies:
BYERS, CTDI, COMCAST
Those who are fifty year old and older try Stop and Shop, Homedepot, or Lowes.
Anonymous 251
Let me share a story that I was told a few hours ago. A person I know works in a company with a STRONG union they have an ironclad no layoff policy you almost have to go ‘postal’ to get fired. This person wants to visit an out of state sister who has been in the hospital for over a week this coming weekend. Their boss refused the request stating that there are people with higher seniority that want that weekend off and he didn’t want any grievances. This person has to work their days off in order to visit their sick relative.
This is not what I want to voted in.
Wake up people, there is a reason why this election is taking place. We want a change and it is only going to happen with a collective voice. Why do you think the company decided to let go the contractors instead of us last week? It is not because they had a change of heart, but they had no choice. We will be next if this opportunity fails.
Another letter from Daigle and Rick today with absolutely nothing! They will not and can not gurantee our jobs or benefits. Verizon, I want job security and put it in writing if you want my vote. Otherwise, I'm voting "YES".
Anonymous 251
Tell you what if you want me to reconsider attach the contract that was worked out for the former Video Engineers, current Engineering Assistants. I want to see realistically what the union can provide.
Let us read it then decide for ourselves. That should not be outside the realm of the Union’s abilities.
Check, Check, Che, Che, Check One, Two......
In one of the company's HR meetings, the question of whether we could be incorporated into the existing union contract was asked. The HR Rep. gave us the impression that this was "highly unlikely." Can the Union respond to this?
I just found, and read the blog. First time. I noticed that pretty much all the comments come from a small handfull of people. That's not a good sign. I wonder what the other 255+ think.
I like to make predictions. This way, after the process plays out, I can say "See. I was right". I try to keep it simple - use common sense - and see if I was right so I can make better predictions in the future. I also look for comment along the way. That's where it really gets valuable.
My guess is that the group will vote yes. Not because of all the blogging info, or suggestive commentary or promises. Most don't buy the promises from either side. They will vote yes because they're frustrated with the current situation. The current situation is simply the result of the company squeezing 1st levels to cut costs in a dying business. Sad, but true. It's not nice, but it's the only way the company thinks they can make quarterly profits. They haven't yet admitted they need to deal with all labor costs and deal with productivity issues related to a portion of all employees.
If the vote is a "No" vote, the company will surplus 25% of the Engineers and RIF them. There's no more FTTP, no Core $, no work. No need for the people. (Companies thinking, not mine.)
If the vote is a "Yes" vote, the company will still surplus 25% of the Engineers, and while they don't have JSL (and never will) they will layoff all 25% - they may just be a different list of individuals - probably least senior people - or something negotiated by the Union. New contracts don't guarantee job security. Company still thinks they don't need people.
If the vote is yes, the resulting negotiated salary will be roughly the same as current pay. Union will argue precedence, NLRB or Arbitrator will generally agree. It will just take 2-3 years to get a contract. No raises or VIP will be implemented pending contract. Some portion of the VIP will be negotiated. Not all because it's documented as company discretion. (company option) not considered base wage.
Many other existing flexibility type perks will be eliminated. Some engineering fuctions will be centralized in other states and done remotely. Additional layers of mgmt (Section Managers, Line and a half) will be brought in to Supervise - or Project Manage - the Union engineers.
I am open to comments, or thoughts.
Also, interested in whether IBEW will expand to other states, or other groups?
To the last Anonymous, you have it about right. In it's simplest terms, I still prefer to go with what I know.
We know the current environment and live with the realities of Verizon trying to it's best in tough times. We know what we have and where we stand. It may not be pleasant all of the time or easy to accept but we know it and we try to prepare ourselves if we are indeed let go.
The union is a huge question mark and in the end we stand to loose a whole lot more than we will gain.
We pay for our health insurance but it is good and the price is reasonable and it is not taxed.
If the union gets in, we MAY get health insurance but we will have to pay union dues. One cancels the other out.
Our pensions are frozen and they will continue to be frozen. Verizon will not agree to go back on that.
Our raises continue to happen. If the union gets in they may be frozen indefinitely both until there is a contract or until everyone in the group is "EQUAL" in pay scale.
We take our vacation time when we choose. Gone with the union.
Some of us work at home. Gone with the union.
We get a VIP. Frozen or gone forever with the union in charge.
And, if the union is voted in do we really get job security? We don't know.
And, most importantly, we loose our title of Engineer.
Need I say more.
So, the risk is too big to vote "YES". We must vote "NO".
The vote must be yes, the unionization must spread to other states and include supervisors. This is the only way we can stop the greedy executives from taking everything that many of us worked so hard for. If we had a union we would not be paying for our medical, we'd be paid for the extra 20 to 30 hours a week we work, I might still have retirement medical that amounts to something and most important we'd still have our pensions. Our pensions have been frozen but Ivan still had 200,000 placed in his pension fund. The retired executives want use of the company jets for life.
It's at the expense of our families and us that the executives and their families enjoy a life of riches. Do you think that they worry how to pay for their children’s college or medical? I don't think that working from home is such a great perk when you have to work a second job to make up for the pension money we've lost.
The union will not be perfect nothing is but it's better than slavery. Support from New Jersey.
Anonymous 251, you finally said something that makes sense. You should get a copy of the contracts from the video engineers and Verizon Business. I haven't seen the video contract, but when this all started I asked the Union reps for a copy of the VZB contract. A new pay scale was set up and the contract said that anyone who may be making more would keep their pay and recieve raises just as the other members would. There isn't a pay freeze while the others catch up. The company also pays for medical and the pension was restored. There were provisions made specific to the VZB workforce, but the major part of the contract falls into the existing IBEW contract. You should call Steve or DJ and get a copy for yourself. Please share it with your friends. As we have been repeatedly told, there is no guarantee we will get as good a contract but I don't think the company could say that giving the same benefits to 260 employees would be detrimental to the business.
This upcoming election is not about Verizon and the IBEW. This election is about the engineers. Don't listen to those who are trying to divide us. Don't let the company's scare tactics undermine what we are fighting for. As a collective voice, we got this process in motion and as a collective voice we will dictate our future. We will fight for our job security, better healthcare and benefits. With one VOICE and some common senses, we will prevail.
YES YES YES!!!
Thought for the day........Ivan managed to do allright and he started in the union. Who says we can't get promoted if Engineering becomes a union job? The company added people to try to dilute the vote. I bet 10%-20% of the new union workforce will be offered promotions to management jobs as soon as this is over.
FYI Just to let all know, I called HR to find out how the Vision Protection Plan (VPP) works, I need to get reading glasses (I can't read prints anymore) and needed to find out how to use the plan. The HR person told me I will need to do it by years end because they will no longer offer it to MGMT employees.
To Sept 2 7:22 - Support from New Jersey: Thank heaven. The only way this job will be complete is to continue this effort beyond New England. C'mon New York !! Where are you ? When I speak to out of state friends and peers and co-workers I'm amazed at how THIS news doesn't travel. Rest assured, Verizon, we're taking care of that. They will hear us now ! Thanks Jersey !
As far as 251's remarks about a struggling company - are you saying your company propaganda mongers are lying to you about our corporate accolades? We're bombarded continually with schtick from Virginia, Seidenberg, Diefenderfer and all the other Hollywood wannabe's about our stellar products and industry standing. You mean they're lying to us ?
I love people that keep commenting on the associates hired after 2003?
1) They are still on the property
2) Verizon needed to bring all contracting jobs back inhouse(job security letter) to call a rif and then offer all those jobs the this group of associates.
3) They will not be replaced by contractors less than two weeks after leaving.
All the no voters can use say what makes them feel good...............
The bottom line is that...WE ARE BEING REPLACED BY CONTRACTORS. The company has changed drastically over the past 10 Yrs. It is time for us to change.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!VOTE YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eddie Gee said..... that the contractor layoff had nothing to do with the recent effort to unionize us (the engineers)LIES LIES LIES. I wonder why he did not tell us that some of those same contractors were offered jobs in Marlboro at Byers offsite office. I was told this by one of the Quincy contract planners.
Eddie...You forgot to tell us that! How convenient!
It was so nice for Daigle, Belben, and Eddie to hold town hall meeting and tell us why we (engineers) should not unionize. "We hear and understand the engineers’ frustrations." Not one of them has offer a solution or promise to the sour treatments we have endure over the years from the company. They are showing up to different engineering offices pretending to be nice to sway us to vote for the company. If this election event had never happen, we would probably see them from webcast other than in person. These guys can talk a dog off a meat wagon with little values and no guarantees for you or me. They cannot be trusted or offer anything to us. By voting YES, we can control our faith and career at Verizon. Vote “Yes” for ONE VOICE!!!!
Well well well. Denny see any writing on the wall? Or did he rape us as far as he possibly could? Or a little of both?
I'm sure this will be spun as another Verizon action to better position us for growth and challenges ahead. We'll believe it when Daigle, Ginny, Jeannie et all ALL follow suit, to start. Add a 25% RIF for Directors, ED's, Managers and other 2nd levels and then we'll talk. Until then? VOTE YES !!!!!
Lets bite off ours noses to spite our face
I have an idea, lets get rid of all top management, and...what the heck, lets shut the hole company down. That is how we can save our jobs!
Here's another idea, lets put in a system where everyone gets the same pay and status no matter what you do. New jobs should be given by seniority, not that foolish merit system. I mean who can tell the difference between one person and another any way. It is far better to make decisions based upon you birth date.
Then, and only then can we attain a utopian workplace where everyone does just what they have to in order to keep their job for life.
Verizon does not owe us a job. FORCING Verizon to owe us a job is not right. FORCING me to be in a union is just as bad.
I would be embarressed to be part of something that utilizes FORCE.
I will continue to deal with my company directly.
Vote NO!!!
WAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAH
stop moaning
@Lets bite off ours noses to spite our face
thats brilliant and hillarious
I had never seen upper Mgmt for years! All of a sudden I see them 3 times a week???
Hmmmmm I wonder why???
It must be because the are not afraid of the engineering group going UNION and securing better benefits!!!!!!
Why would that be...The UNION can't do anything for us.
!!!!!!!VOTE YES!!!!!!!!!!
Realistic:
If we do not get paid the same now, how will we get paid the same in the UNION?
- Our jobs will still be a resume job
- Most likely you will need a college education to apply
- You can still put in for promotions if you would like
Notice:
The important thing to understand is that our goal is JOB SECURITY!!!
Verizon is rifing us and telling us we can come back as contractors!
Every UNION member has a no contractors layoff clause! Our goal is to be rolled into the core contract.
Verizon just muddies the waters with corporate speak knowing the ones that are confused will not vote for change!
If you are worried about losing your job to a contractor...
------------VOTE YES!!!!!!!
SPRINGFIELD............
I know we are with them! This includes us also. Take a look at the classified job section...not good out here I have looked it is not pretty! Marciano rule is getting old! The UNION can help us We are in this together! Job conditions get worse every week!VOTE YES!
For those who think 1+1=2 and hard work results in reward or promotion in this company is sadly mistaken. Ever heard of "leveling" sessions regarding compensation? Efforts to ultimately equalize pay, with eventual capping. What world are these individuals living in believing hard work, education and extra effort will result in anything more than a RIF in time with Verizon? This place is WORSE than "who you know" - Just look at the pathetic criteria of those promoted. Sure you can apply for promotions. You can also win the lottery by buying scratch tickets. Guess what - nothings fair. I'd rather have the IBEW membership as my ally when I "deal with the company".
A thousand times "YES" !
The Union does as much fear mongering as they accuse the company.
The reason upper management doesn't want the Union is because it will make it harder and more expensive to do business.
This is a tough thing for people who came into this company expecting a job until their early retirement to accept, but the party is over. The old phone company does not exist any more, they are no longer a monopoly, and they can no longer afford the extravagant benefits that were granted during the halcyon days of AT&T.
It makes me laugh to see people write to this blog really believing that union membership is going to grant them the keys to the kingdom.
We will be our own bargining unit, we won't get the same contract that the pre-2003 associates get. You can certainly bet the company will drag its feet, and negotiate a very hard line with us. They know if we get a good contract that New York, and the South will want to follow suit. Of course the union is hoping for the same. How does that help us? They can still lay us off, and you can bet there will be no RIF severance package to go with it.
All we hear over and over in this blog is that a yes vote is a vote for job security. I think the contrary is true, it will only accelerate the loss of our jobs. A lot of our jobs could just as easily be done in other parts of the country or maybe India. Of course the union will stop that to, right? Sure they will, just ask them, they'll tell you.
The sad truth is that our part of the business is shrinking. We all have to face that, and stop whining that you don't like change. The union can't make people start buying more telephone lines, and they can't make the company give us the wireless work.
It seems appropriate that the previous post, which ridicules hard work and education would vote "a Thousand times yes". The antiquated work rules put in place by the union do not reward hard work, in fact, your fellow union members will admonish you if you work too hard.
I mean what is not to like for the company, an expensive, lazy, minimalist workforce. Sadly for many people that are putting their faith in the union aught to be putting their faith in themselves, because this is 2009, not 1989, and the true path to financial security is self reliance, hard work, and education. With those three things you don't need to count on Verizon, or anyone else tyo guarantee you a job.
Fantastic NOT BUYING IT!!! I am confident that 75% of us being brought into this nightmare agree with you. And a nightmare it is.
It is so humiliating to be brought into this after being almost 30 years in the field of engineering where a good work ethic and striving to do your best will all be pushed aside.
The yes voters must really fear that they can't do it on their own if they had to. Their reasons for voting yes are not rational. So, who is really the fear monger? A rational person knows the answer to that question.
6:12 from human resources what a troll. In the event you are actually an engineer then you once again show what a one way selfish maggot you are. Let me understand, you have 30 years which ENTITLES YOU to a pension/cash payout of an obscene amount compared to what mine was frozen at and you also get a portion of private insurance paid for you and your family when you retire but you will vote no to prevent your co-workers from getting the chance to get that back. I also see how your 30 years of good work has been rewarded - no wait you are still pond scum first level like the rest of us hmmmm so much for that whole reward thing. You musn't be one of the priviliged races or orienatation folks. You call yourself an engineer but lets be real you and I and the rest of us are glorified clerks/service reps. Golly gee you can read a cable plat or trace a mux on a wall or write a design or issue an order - it's rocket science I tell you. In my position I deal with OSP and IOF folks and probably 4 of then can call themselves engineers with a straight face, I am not one and none of them have 30 years so neither are you. You shouldn't even be aloud to vote - why should you who is leaving retiring/dying soon make a decision that will affect engineering forever. Take your benfits, that you begrudge to the rest of us, and screw!
6:12 from human resources what a troll. In the event you are actually an engineer then you once again show what a one way selfish maggot you are. Let me understand, you have 30 years which ENTITLES YOU to a pension/cash payout of an obscene amount compared to what mine was frozen at and you also get a portion of private insurance paid for you and your family when you retire but you will vote no to prevent your co-workers from getting the chance to get that back. I also see how your 30 years of good work has been rewarded - no wait you are still pond scum first level like the rest of us hmmmm so much for that whole reward thing. You musn't be one of the priviliged races or orienatation folks. You call yourself an engineer but lets be real you and I and the rest of us are glorified clerks/service reps. Golly gee you can read a cable plat or trace a mux on a wall or write a design or issue an order - it's rocket science I tell you. In my position I deal with OSP and IOF folks and probably 4 of then can call themselves engineers with a straight face, I am not one and none of them have 30 years so neither are you. You shouldn't even be aloud to vote - why should you who is leaving retiring/dying soon make a decision that will affect engineering forever. Take your benfits, that you begrudge to the rest of us, and screw!
As a programmer in IT who sees fellow workers with solid perfomance and long service fired in favor of H1-B visa holders or cheap off-shore labor, I don't understand why anyone would NOT vote yes. At this point, one would have to be a moron to believe there is any advantage to being an unrepresented employee-at-will. I laugh at the idiots who are afraid to lose their TITLE! How 'bout I pay you in monopoly money and call you a VP? The 30 year employee who thinks that hard work will pay off? 30 yrs. at 1st level says it all. Remember not one single union worker has lost their pension, medical, overtime compensation or job security. Who's the fool? We'd love to see IBEW organize IT.
"You musn't be one of the priviliged races or orienatation folks."----Anonymous 6:36
May I ask who the “privileged races” and “orientation folks” are? I think I know who you are referencing however I am giving you the courtesy of clarifying or retracting your statement before I respond.
I think we all know what that means, I believe gender was left out in error but I can't speak for someone else. Do you dispute that??
when a portion, no matter how small, of upper management VIP is based on how "diverse" their wokforce is what do you think that leads to?
It seems that the discussion is drifting away from the topic at hand. Talk of promotion and being judged on merit is a moot point. From where I sit there is glut of second levels and it appears that the axe is headed their way. So many of us are gone be it to retirement or RIF how can second level positions be justified when they are managing 8 to 15 people. Realistically all the dead weight is gone and all of us left standing have merit and deserve to be here on that criteria. Can the Union deliver every wish to every one – NO, Is the company saying they will give us anything back or protect us in the future – NO. The union has provided for the members they have and look out for their best interest – collectively. The company continues to take away from the defenseless and it appears that the end is not in sight. Vote yes in order that we together, as engineers, can present a united front and get the rewards we deserve for the contributions we make to the success of this company. Don’t fall for the bait that some of these posters are putting on here – they just look for angry responses and then cast aspersions on you. Stand together and do the right the thing on 9/15. YES WE CAN!!!!!!!!
Well put, Anon 4:37 - I think we've beaten a dead horse enough dismissing that that merit, education and superb work translates into something more than removal from tne company. Excellent points. Only the company has failed to recognize that glut of 2nds and slay us instead. I've been there before - the 2nds themselves will want in soon! A unified front, a negotiating agent, an alliance so to speak, is the only way we can survive past 9/16. Recognize the unique, enviable and fortunate option in front of us. Vote a collective "YES" !!!!
Has anyone been to basking Ridge and seen the palace they built for themselves. You are a second-class citizen in the eyes of upper management. Upper management has made a lot of poor decisions that have led to the decline of our business, but in the end they’ll still have jobs, bonuses and golden parachutes. Vote YES.
Its funny reading the talk about the 2nd levels and maybe an impending RIF for them. As more and more of us are laid off, they've come up with "section managers" to lighten the load for the poor over worked 2nd levels because they have 2 offices each now to manage. Its equally interesting, and not lost on us, that the promotions in the Worc/Fram offices for the section managers have been "put on hold" Do they think we're stupid? If those promotions had gone through they wouldn't have been able to vote NO on 9/15. Just as the current round of contractor reductions is "coincidentally" 2 weeks before the vote! And finally, Do you think they're nervous? They went to the trouble and expense of sending us more propaganda via Fed-Ex over this past weekend! What a brilliant use of resources. Did you catch the paragraph in which Daigle reminds us of "what we have today and and have had in the past is a "positive work environment"..Doesn't that say it all? How out of touch he/they are? Vote yes on 9/15 and end this madness!
Not Buying It - what a fool you are. You have been drinking the Kool-Aid for too long. Your head must be so far up your bosses ass that you can't see the light of day anymore. How many RIFs have you been privy to in your work group? Probably not many by the sound of your comment. Education? Hard work? These things will save you? I pity you when your boss gives you the tap and says sorry, time to go, but we're going to keep 100 retirees on the payroll instead of you. I'd love to be there to see your jaw hit the floor. Wake up and smell the coffee. Dumbass.
Anyone who votes no on September 15 must be out of their minds. There is no protection, there is no respect, our benefits are diminishing, everyone is stressed out and overworked because the company that we once enjoyed working for is tucking it to us. If anyone thinks that they are protected by their manager, think again. Consolidation of managers will be next. Don't let this opportunity pass vote YES, because if September 15 comes and goes and we are not Unionized, just wait for the next RIF. We will be walking out the door and contractors will be walking in.
You got that right! The primary objective is job security. If you are thinking flex time, you will have all the flex time you want looking for another job. What is so scary about having representation? Think about what the company is doing, what is their next move, what are they trying to accomplish, how are they accomplishing it, who is affected by the company's decisions? Ask yourself these questions?
YES will be my vote on Tuesday!
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. ~Author unknown, commonly misattributed to Charles Darwin
LET'S MAKE A CHANGE VOTE YES TO UNION
Fedex'd Saturday delivery of a letter that we've already seen e-mailed 3 times - And this incompetant is restricting legit office expenses. Brilliant use of resources. Practice what you preach, Daigle. I think the stupidity is evident enough in New England. Time to take this show to the other states. See you at the polls - in the "YES" square !!!!
With respect to Anon 3:52 "Worc/Fram Section Manager-S" ? As in plural? How can the departure of one Manager create 2 openings? If only the engineers left behind in the wake of this hatchet job were as fortunate as a 2nd to have their work cut in half! Just what we need - more managers. Feel the pain, 2nds. Suck up some of the medicine you're dishing out and quadruple YOUR own load. Pathetic. Can't WAIT to really do my job conscientously on 9/16.
As if we don't have enough to make this decision...Verizon has been offering the laid off contractors off premise jobs working at home! Good job Eddie Gee! Way to start off your tenure by lying to all your loyal subjects!
VOTE YES!!!!
How can you trust a Company that continually lies. We have given them every opportunity to create an honest dialog and for some reason that can't be done! If you have any doubt that the Union can help us, ask yourself this question!
QUESTION?
Why is the company putting so much effort into campaigning against this action?
ANSWER
FROM A 2ND LEVEL MANAGER: THEY ARE WORRIED THAT THE COST OF BARGAINING WILL BE BETTER BEEFITS AND PAY. THEREFORE THEY WILL NEED TO CUT UPPER LEVEL POSITIONS AND BENEFITS THAT WILL DIRECTLY AFFECT THEM!
THIS SAME MANAGER THINKS THAT IF THIS IS SUCCESFUL IT WILL MEAN JOB SECURITY FOR 2NDS ALSO. HE SAID HE WOULD VOTE YES!
I don't think any engineers feel that they are entitled to a job for life. However, all of us agree that we are entitled to some fairness and respects for the contributions we made and continue to make. With all the take aways and RIFs, do you really think the company is going to stop putting the squeeze on lower level managments? "NO WAY" Upper level managments are doing this to save their jobs and enjoy their big bonus while we are left to suffer.
Although the IBEW may not be perfect, but at least they will give us a voice. Lets not waste this opportunity and vote "YES"!
I cannot phantom with the idea that certain engineers think that they are untouchable. First lead engineers, you guys are the most high value targets. Why? Well, if the bean counters want to reduce head counts, you guys will provide the bigger bang for the bucks. Why should the company pay the high salary and potential high healthcare and benefit cost? The company can hire two college kids and double their work forces. And don’t you think the company has a list of employees who are approaching the magic 75 numbers? Talk to all the Verizon business employees who received the RIFs papers that were 1-2 years away from the magic numbers. Secondly C.O. Engineers, who guys are one step from having all your works contracted out to CTDI. Finally Engineering Planners, why do you think that the RIFs have hit you guys the hardest? There are no more planning at Verizon. Everything we do at Verizon today is reactive and putting out the fires.
Wake up and smell the coffee people!!! Or you are too buried underneath your bosses ass? You should vote "YES" if you guys have any common sense, but who am I kidding.
Let's make one thing clear. The Union has not made promises of any kind, but the company keeps making accusations. The company cannot offer us job security any more than the union can. How many engineering offices have had five or more on or off prem contractors and the number of contractors continue to increase. Responding to the person who said that the company does not owe us a job. They do owe us respect and replacing engineers with contractors who were once our peers is an insult.
VOTE YES
Regarding Tuesday's Vote
1) Think of what has transpired in the past year.
2) Think of what is happening now
3) Think of what will happen next
4) Don't just think of yourself
MY VOTE WILL BE YES FOR REPRESENTATION.
Wow, this blog can certainly stoop to low levels. Those who choose to use ad hominem and personal attacks as a means of debating and presenting a winning argument are, unfortunately, accomplishing the opposite. I sense desperation in their argument.
On a higher note, upper management isn't out to get "us". They aren't laying people off because they want to. It isn't a "them" and "us".
The company is not doing well and this is the reality. Choosing to not accept the reality and just deal with it is not good for anyone. Trying to reinvent the reality and force the company to provide something they can not is childish.
The union can not promise anything. The company can not promise anything. I still prefer to keep what I already know. The underlying core values of the union are not condusive to hard work and achievement. I can't buy into that.
I will be voting a vary loud NO on September 15th.
I do not know if the union is the solution to the problems 1 & 2 level management.
What I do know is that status quo is not working. Every company including Verizon is saying they are just following suit.
Is that the right thing. . . NO!
Do I believe the union will give us a voice . . . possibly . . . but at what cost?
I am so confused. I have many many more years to work and things can not continue the way they are now.
What is the right answer?
If the company is not doing well, then how is it they keep hiring contractors? How is it that Mr Seindenberg makes the money he does? Their solution is cutting employees to reduce expenses. Is there nothing else that can be done to reduce expenses other than Riffing? I am quite aware that they are selling off costly asset, but are there no other ways to reduce costs other than to get rid of employees. The company seems to be making all sorts of drastic changes at once. We are all hard working employees. How about the unfairness of all the past RIFS? I guess you would have to know what happens at each engineering location to truly see and hear what is going on? Why is there so much animosity for the Union. Why isn't this animosity redirected toward the company? It is a matter of respect and that I believe I deserve.
My vote is yes today and will be yes on Tuesday.
To: "Getting the Big Picture" - Get the bigger one. In the late 80's, I still remember a friend of mine asking, (when the "We're the one for you New England, New England Telephone" ad campaign was running): "Why would the phone company even have to advertise when they're a monopoly?" The answer: the unveiling of the feared competitive environment and the perceived demise of the company. In '89, the company was also "not doing well" and healthcare for employees could not be provided. Since then, and for years into the future, there will be competitve threats. Make no mistake. You are naive to believe this company was, is, or will ever be on the breadline - and, any strategic miscalculation should be directed at Seidenberg, his cronies, and no one else - the same thieves who defend their 7 figure compensation as commensurate for other industries. I still remember my stock over $60 a share in 2000. (Thanks, by the way, for that yet-to-be-recouped loss AND the useless Founders stock grant). It's very simple. It really is us vs. them. They always could afford good jobs (especially for themselves), and they always will - VOTE YES and make sure you keep one of them.
In 1992, after my tenth year, they called it FMP, today they call it RIF, all the same result, not performance based, who you shot pool with and how well you were received / perceived by your 2nd Level, that determined your future. I remember many Thanksgiving dinners since then, wondering if I would have a job, be able to pay the Holiday bills and be able to provide for my family into the New Year, you see my company then and now continued to let go the first level management force during the holiday season. This holiday season, I look forward to not worrying about that, I will still be the performer I have always been and my holiday dinner will go down a little easier. I look forward to the new future where with representation, we speak as one. YES is the only way to vote folks.
Vote yes! This isn't a vote to leave Verizon and join a Union. It's a vote to stay at Verizon. Many of us could have gone to work somewhere else, but we stayed because we enjoy the work and the company of our co-workers. Please do what you know is right for your job security and that of your friends at Verizon.
When we accepted our promotions we expected that the company would honor the conditions we were promoted under. They haven't because I was told that they could do what they want because it was in the fine print. We'll no one every made it a point to show me the fine print. While we losing our benefits Ivan and his buddies lost nothing. These people have no honor no respect for anyone. If they could we would be working for free. Ivan and his buddies betrayed us, they spit in our faces and some of us are OK with that. Do we have any self-respect left to stand up for ourselves? Or is OK with being treated like garbage.
Is this the example we want to set for children, it’s Ok to be abused and treated like garbage. I haven’t raised my children to treat people that way. A vote YES is the first step in getting the respect we deserve.
New York where are you?
Just look at our benefits, $8000 toward schooling while the union gets 100%. Comcast gives their employees free internet and television while we pay. I could go on, but you do the math or the figuring. Don't be fooled by a company that has had no respect lately for workers or contractors.
How much notice has been given to the contractors that they were no longer needed.
Since when is a good salary being treated like garbage? Many of the bloggers on this site really take things too personally.
What Verizon is doing is not personal. It is a bottom-line. Isn't that how companies are supposed to operate? The fact is that Verizon is in business to make money. Not to make us "feel good". I don't need a company to make me "feel good".
Verizon pays me a salary and it is up to me to "feel good" about the work I do.
And, once again, Verizon does not owe us a job.
Vote NO on Tuesday September 15th and don't risk loosing what we already have, which is very good.
I heard that no matter how we vote next week, the RIF that has been announced for Oct 15th (off payroll Nov 15th) still goes through. How can we do the work missing another 30% of the Engineers? Will they hire back the on-prem Engineers that were let go last week?
I hear this also, about the RIF. We don't know what the company will do. Voting yes for union will only make things worse.
269 x 30% = a lot of goodbyes...
Some of the 269 folks have counterparts in NY and NJ. This union election is strictly NE. The RIF will also include NY and NJ so the potential RIF pool is greater than 269.
who said 30%? or is that speculation? Vote yes - we have nothing to lose and plenty to gain.
STAND FIRM - Confusing information huh? This company that worships Wall Street would never RIF a recently organized group of management employees in the present economic environment, talk about bad press, the papers would eat that up. I think the present administration would frown on that and voice an opinion that would tumble the stock price, nice try HR, your grasping for straws now, get ready for the change - VOTE YES !!
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